Dent Repair Now All Access Podcast — Episode 95 (joint episode with the PDR College Podcast)
Keith Cosentino & Gene Fetty
Corrected transcript (machine transcription; names corrected)
[00:07] I'm Keith Cosentino. He is Gene Fetty. Wait for it. And this is the PDR College podcast. Bringing the classic Keith and Gene combination back to the forefront of your listening ears. PDR excellence PDR. Seniority, but like senior citizen style, Gene. We're not getting any younger. That's for sure. No, we've been doing this for a long time, man. It's starting to feel like those old guys, crotchety old guys in the corner. But here we are. We've experienced a lot of things. We've made a lot of sheet metal flat, hopefully made some money along the way, made a ton of friends. And now we are spending our evenings on a laptop trying to share cool ideas and provoke thoughts and ideas in your mind. The listener, thanks for hanging out with us.
[00:57] Exactly. Thank you. And, right, this is a co-show or a double show. So, welcome back to another episode of the All Access Podcast. I think this might be 94 or 95. We're coming up on that one hundredth episode, Keith. Uh so I'm excited for that and excited to be back on a show With you, it's been like a year and a half, almost two years since we've been on a show together. It goes fast. It doesn't feel that long because we talk a lot, but it does go fast. Lots of episodes in between. Yeah, definitely. For sure. I think you did make the guest appearance. In Italy and then at the Expo, but that's not the same as a actual full-on episode. We did have quite a long interview in Italy, though, outside that expo. That was a cool, that was a, that was a Experience. It was a really cool experience.
[01:45] You gonna go again? Um Maybe. I'm going to Germany. I'm going to Germany this year. I want to see that show. I'm going to go see the Porsche Museum. Uh so. Be a relatively quick trip. If you want to see the plant. You have to register way early. Okay. You have to buy a ticket like a plane ticket. Like now. I thought you could just show up and go. You can't. For the museum, you can. For the factory tour, you cannot. So I was super bummed that I didn't understand that. When I got out there, I was like, we're going to the factory. Like, no, you're not. I'm dying. Night. Yeah. And the museum's cool. Uh the Mercedes Museum is ten times as cool. That's what I heard. I heard that it is it is the one to see, but uh And I'm a Porsche fanboy, you know that. Yes. And the museum was great. Porsche Museum is nothing. You'll be, you'll enjoy it. But Mercedes Museum is like, 10x.
[02:45] Just way cooler. So much more history. They did so much more. Porsche is just race car. Right. That's great. Mercedes was part of the of the industrial revolution in Germany and their whole the whole museum is set up in chronological order from powered barges all the way up to planes and everything Mercedes powered. So they're like the Ford of Germany, the Ford of Europe. Yeah. Right. Because Ford was into all of that back in the day. Yeah, maybe more so than. Wow. That's crazy. So don't miss that. All right, noted. All right, add Mercedes Factory or add the Mercedes Museum and see if I can buy tickets to the Porsche. Yeah.
[03:31] Factory Tour. So okay, so topics for today. Well, we, you know, the The core topic of PDR College has always been pricing. That's how Shane and I got started with this thing. That's what it. That was the driver. It's why I show up to work, Gene. Monies. Exactly. And We've always talked about, hey, you're pricing your stuff wrong. You, you're not. pricing it right, which generally means it's too low. Typically, right, yeah, you're getting wrong, you're yeah, and you're charging too much. That is an argument some people have. It's generally too low. So when you adopt the whole PDR College mindset and you want to do the most beautiful repairs you can, you set a a price standard. Generally, it's a higher price than most of your competitors. That's fair to say, right?
[04:27] Well, thanks to people like the PDR College podcast. The whole market has risen up. So I don't know that we Here, right? Pittsburgh's been a pretty good adopter. I don't know that we have. A lot of Cheaper guys out there, right? We're all kind of. That's great. It is. It's become more standardized in a good way. Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's kind of like how it should be similar to a body shops, right? You're going to go in town, you'll have some variants, but maybe 10, 20%, not 150%. Yeah, right, or 300% or yeah, I mean, of course we still run it, run into that. But as a whole, I would say like the the actual competitors here. We're all pretty well on the same page. So, my market is a little different. There are some competitors, and there's all levels of quality. There's the worst guys that, you know, just.
[05:22] Hacking stuff apart and fake videos to prove it and everything. And then there's guys that are like actually good, like really good guys who are probably 50%. What some of our prices are. And people are shopping more and more. Like it's easier to shop. Oh, for sure it is. You can find lots of compet lots of vendors. So in The topic comes down to when to hold the line on your pricing. And If If ever, or when to negotiate, if ever. So I want to add another little spin here. And I know that you and I don't have this issue.
[06:11] But I think there's a lot of, in fact I know there's a lot of technicians out there that are just technicians, which is fine. And when they look at the price guide, right, be it in Mobile Tech RX or DentMate or just a piece of paper. And They start plugging all these factors in. And they're able to spit out that high number. but they don't have Any sales skills. to be able to sell it. And they may not take into account, you know, like, man, if I put all these factors in, it's $10,000 to change the door on this Camry. Um Listen, I'm all for swinging for the fences. Like the $10,000 Camry door is a reach. You know what I mean? Like it could be thousands, but it's not going to be ten. So I think you need to apply some logic.
[07:02] Yeah. and some scales sales skills to it. Secondly, right, I think I think they work hand in hand. That's a good point. Yeah, so There you're right. There is a kind of timeline or an evolution to adopting this idea of call it high pricing. And you can quickly adopt the idea without having the ability to sell to support it or even communicate, which is what sales really is, anyways. Right? Right, right, exactly. But if you're just popping numbers out there and and not able to provide the value, you're probably not going to close a lot of them. And then you can think you have a pricing problem when really you have a sales problem. Exactly. Yeah, they think their market's bad.
[07:52] And it's well these people don't want to spend money, they don't want to spend money. But you know, back to your old Mercedes in Sacramento or in Chicken Lips, right? It's the same price. doable, but you have to deliver it. Tact. I suppose. And at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. no matter how good of a salesperson you are. Some people just don't want to spend the money. Of course not. course not. They might they they might be a great customer in every other regard. The car is the right car, the damage is the right damage, they seem like the right person, they're easy to communicate with, they're nice, but they can't see spending $1,900 to fix this dent. Exactly. Exactly. And you know Call it a benefit. Call it a... A drawback, Gene, but we've been doing this for a long time. We have. And a $1,900 dent today, you and I have fixed a thousand of them for 300 bucks. Of course we have. Well, listen, I remember when 300 was the number.
[08:52] Oh man, it can't go over three hundred'cause they can paint it for that. Right. And so You know, we've had days, we've had some blockbuster months at my shop, even with a few dead days. throughout the month because our pricing is pretty aggressive. But on those dead days, you're like, man. We're dropping ten estimates on cars and nobody's dropping. No, and everyone's still shopping. Right. At what point do you start dealing or ever? I have my. vision on what you should do and and Shane's been really upfront about this since date He's always said, I'm filling my shop. He's like, high prices, yes, I want them, I'll do them. But at the end of the day, these guys need to stay busy.
[09:45] I need to get these cars in the shop at whatever number they need. Yeah. That's what You know, so my son does our estimating, right? So he's your son, Mack, is working at your shop and he's doing amazing. My son, Liam. He's working here too, but he's not fixing cars. He's doing everything. So he does the estimates and Way back when, when I was first in dent repair, I was at a business called Dent Magic. This was run by a guy who was one of the first guys that Lido trained. And then he left the Wiz and started his own company. So I worked for him and we had a handful of guys and Our like our retail prices were crazy. I don't remember exactly what they were, but they were like three categories. $59, $89, and $129 or something. It's like the biggest thing you could fix was $129. Um It was the same scenario that pretty much everyone runs who are owner operators, like you do the estimate and you do the dent.
[10:45] Yes. And then we were busy because we were, here was a shop in 1997 or 98. It's pretty early. And there wasn't any competitors, there wasn't even an internet. So the shop would get busy. People would stack up out there. And then we ended up hiring this guy to do our estimates. His name was Alex. Alex didn't know. Jack, all about dent repair, but he like he was in training to go be a sheriff. Oh wow. But he was a confident guy, clean-cut guy. And he started doing the estimates. Yeah. We'd just hang out in the back like a bunch of knuckleheads, and then he'd do the estimate and drive the car around and tell us what it was. He was getting numbers that were like three, four, five, six, X what we would estimate these cars for. And we were like Oh my gosh, Alex is like magic.
[11:38] And I'm like, how are you getting these prices? Alex is like, what do you mean? Look at it. It's like, it's a giant dent. It would be so much to replace this door, like six hundred dollars is a good deal. That's all. And you were at 129. Alex. Yeah. Like everybody wanted to just shut up, like weld the door shut and let Alex talk to everybody. So I learned way back then that there's a power in in disconnecting your estimator from the repair because we're too emotionally invested in the we want the work. Well, I I see that with, you know, whether it's Shannon or MeLissa or Jennifer back in the day working the front desk and they would they'll bring this car back and they're like, hey, I sold this for X. This? Yeah. Yeah, why not? And I'm like, Like, wow, it's you know, it's this big and I think it's obstructed and it's this and I think it looks deep to me and I'm like You're not wrong.
[12:34] They don't have the head trash that we have of how Quickly, right? We're able to fix it. But that speed comes with all of our experience and the You know what I mean? The tens and tens of thousands of dollars in tools that we invest in. I don't think you're going to say tens of thousands of hours because they got well, and tens of thousands of hours, right? Like, it's all of that. And it's funny to tell that story. I don't know if you remember. I'm sure you've heard. Like, that's kind of how the Paul Cordon price guide came to be. Um His boss put in the dude was like an out-of-work engineer. and needed something to do, and Paul was like, I just need some kind of guide. To get this dude close. And he made the guide, and the guy started selling these huge numbers. Because It's what it takes to fix the car. But he doesn't let that head trash get in the way.
[13:22] And so when Liam closes them, they're always at great numbers because he's sticking to the plant. Right. 18 inches of damage, if you're trying to make it as perfect as possible, is a butt ton of work. I don't care what panel it's on. It's like how light the damage is. That's a large area to make perfect. Right. So he's like, dude, it's 18 inches. I'm like, oh, come on, man. We fixed these for 600 bucks before. Let's get this guy in the door. And then 11 hours later, he's like, I told you. I'm watching you guys. I don't want to fix it like you want to fix it. I'm just looking at it for what it is. There's no BS. Like, I just see it, I measure it, and that's what it is. Yep. He's like, I watch you guys struggle on these stretch dents that you get all cocky that you're going to fix it. When it's stretched, it's stretched. It's a ton of work. So much work.
[14:12] So what's the best but they're doing this for shrinky boxes. I didn't, I can't believe how much we have to use them. And so I Quick side note: I bought the original one, you know, the Power PDR, one of the kind of like 17 or 18. Right after they came out, I was like, man, I need this. I ran into a couple stretch dents that took me to school. And then it felt like I hardly used them. Like how he sat there. Over the last Maybe two years. Certainly over the last year. I don't think that's gotten a little thinner or what? It is like a, if not a weekly occurrence, a several time a month occurrence. It's just a regular tool now. Same here. And I think there's a couple reasons for that, not to get too far off the topic, but I think Number one.
[14:58] Yes, thinner metal. Number two. We got Stupid guys like Brice Kelly. that keeps showing us what's possible. And you're like, Yeah, I could do that. I can fix that. I can try that. Yeah, let's see what we can do here. I think I can do it. I've seen Brice do it. And those are all stretched. Every single thing that you are impressed by, it is stretched. Of course. It's smoked. So we're, I think part of it is yes, thinner stuff. And another one is like, we're just not saying no to anything. Like if the paint's not broken, we're saying yeah. Yeah, we're saying we're taking on way bigger damage than we've ever taken on before. So so To this scenario, you know, Liam's putting great prices on cars. And then we hit like a little rocky couple of days, and the shop is a little bit slower. And I'm You know, I'm watching these people drive away with $2,500 estimates. I'm like, yeah.
[15:56] I think we could have done something. Let's get this guy back in here. And I don't know if that's right. So in my word. That's the topic of today, right? So is do you stick to your guns? And is it, you know, do you be fair to every customer and like? This is the number. Take it or leave it. I know a lot of guys that. that have that mindset. And some of them have the if I can't. If you don't want to pay me to fix it perfect, I don't want to work on it. Right. We do a ton of make it better stuff. So do we, a ton. Love them. They're some of my favorite repairs. I don't know if they're my favorite repairs, to be honest with you, because I overfixed them. I do almost every time. And sometimes it's like they get the same result. Especially if the shop is still slow, I'm like, well, I'm not going to just sit here and stare at a half-done car. I'd rather just keep working on it. Right. But there's nothing else to do, even though it's more than what I promised him.
[16:51] I'm not I'm not planning on stopping those any time soon. but I'm willing to entertain the idea that it's a bad business. I'm willing to talk about it because There is something that sucks about putting out Less than your Capabilities. Agreed. Agreed. I've always said we're in the business of making people happy. And if you, if this makes you happy and I'm upfront and clear about what it is, and that's something that you want, great, we do it. And I don't feel bad about that. There is a pride element, and kind of like with guys like Brice and Jay Ma and Arlison Guedes leading the way. Doing just amazing work. These guys are not hiding anything anywhere, there's no funny video tricks. It's just the world's best craftsman.
[17:48] their attention onto painted sheet men. And I want to do that. I like doing that stuff. I'm not as good as those guys. I'm not as patient as those guys. I like having them As aspirations Then you're kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth when you're like, yeah. We can get this looking pretty good for 800 bucks and send you on your way. And it's not even anywhere close to that kind of work. It's not. has nothing to do with that. Well, I think it I think it is so. To paint a side-by-side picture, right, let's look at auto body. Right, so you've got your let's call it your DRP model. catering to the insurance company. They just feed you work. You work inside of there. Constraints, you make it happen and they just feed you and everybody's happy and everybody makes money.
[18:39] And then there's the side note on that. Before I forget, not to take you off track on this one either. I can't believe how cheap they can paint some stuff. It's kind of crazy, isn't it? Yeah. It really is. I'll tell a story about it later if we have time, but I had a car that was like a $2,500 two-door kind of light collision, and they were at like and a thousand bucks to paint to paint repair and paint two doors. How's that possible? That's insane. What happened to body shops being expensive, but they're constrained by the DRP? Yep. Yeah, they got to play inside of that, inside of that loop. Anyway, so you got those. And then the other side is you have the full OE guys, right? The full OE shops. Right, the Kristen Felders, the uh SCRS. true. where it's like we have to follow every single manufacturer's process to a T And really, if you peek behind the curtains at those stores, and there's nothing wrong with this, it's just a different business model.
[19:34] They're actually more in the business of totaling cars. Than they are fixing cars, right? The cars that they fix. They're maximizing every single penny. And like everybody's happy to work on the cars. But the majority of the cars that come through are total losses because of the OE procedures. Right. There is a school of thought in that in the collision world that Says A shop is incapable of totaling a car. A shop just writes the estimate, and the damage and the insurance company decide if it's a total loss or not. But it's like we don't total cars, we just fix them, and there's one way to fix them right. And I'm sorry that the amount of work it takes to fix it right exceeds the value of this car. I didn't make that happen, you know, because they're looking at it like. Yes, you could do other things to it, but you're cutting Cutting out necessary procedures to try and fake it into being fixed. Right. And I don't disagree with that. No, I don't disagree, but.
[20:31] There's a big gray area in the middle of it where it's Is it right what they're doing? Yes, absolutely. For sure, a thousand percent. 100%, no question. Fixing a car to the most perfect ability is right. No arguments, full stop for that. Take my own car. And it's like, hey, the quarter panel has a scratch on it. Well, the right thing to do is to pull both the doors and paint the aperture and the quarter and take out the s the panoramics glass and paint o like that's the right way to do it. Right. But I'm like, hey, I don't want any of that done to this car. Just blend this quarter in a five-inch circle around the taillight because I want to keep all the other paint factory. Is that wrong? I don't think that's wrong either. So it's like, There's the right way, but then it's your own car. If you want to fix it differently, I think that's okay. Yeah. So, so I think the you know, going down the maximizing every dollar.
[21:31] sticking to your guns, writing it to the nines. and only fixing the cars that come in that way. If you can if you if you can I think you need to do like what Brice has done in order to operate a business like that. Right for the last How long has Brice been 12 years? Yeah, 10, 12 years. Like he's been out there producing the craziest stuff, showing it, and he's built that business up to have and support that model. I don't know, and maybe it's head trash. But I don't know that you can take. that business model and throw it into, you know. XYZ dent shot to dent repair now in Canonsburg, Pennsylvania. and survive. on being able to find those cars. Well, how many cars uh got dropped off on trailers from other states for you this week? Yeah, uh zero.
[22:24] Let me check my schedule too here. Yeah, it looks like also zero. So like Y yeah You know, I love the saying from Ronnie Coleman. Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but ain't nobody want to lift no heavy ass weights. Everybody wants to breathe Brice Kelly, but nobody wants to beat their head against a panel for 14 hours and hold yourself to the literal perfect standard. for 10 years straight while videoing everything. Get your reputation to the point that Rivians are coming 4,000 miles and dropping off on trailers. Exactly. You can't just turn that on overnight. That's a success that he built with a lot of amazing. tenacity both on the repairs and the marketing. So oh, absolutely. And he's done an amazing job. Uh-huh.
[23:11] I think that really shows the I still think the biggest problem with PDR today is on the retail side of things. The world doesn't know we exist. customers in here every single day. The majority of my customers that come through the door. Never heard of PDR until us with this particular dent are coming into. Like, and I've been doing this for 24 years. We've had a retail presence for 13 years and we've had a brick and mortar shop for eight, eight and a half. And here Like as much as we do. People still don't know we exist. I think more people would need to know that PDR is an option. and that big PDR is an option to where you're obviously getting insurance involved. do those to be able to to hold it to the highest level.
[24:03] I think that's the reality of it. So you said you're more like Shane. Yes. Let's get this car in. fix the car, bring the cars in. I need to make People happy. I got employees to pay. I got overhead to pay. Like, we're just going to fix some cars. But you know, you're a fan of The Office too, right? The TV show? No, I'm actually not. You it's your humor, but you've never watched it. Yeah, I'm not uh I never got into it. There's a classic episode where Michael Scott starts his own paper company to compete with his his company. And They're selling cases or reams of paper at a loss. And he's like, don't worry, we're going to make it up on volume. Nice. I've heard that one. Yeah, it's hilarious. But. You know it When you're taking these giant jobs in.
[24:55] Or half of what the original estimate was, you're kind of telling yourself the same thing: like, yeah, we're losing money on this one, but don't worry, we're gonna make it up on volume. We're gonna get a lot of these, right? A lot of these. This thing sucks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so how do you choose when to turn it off? Is just when the business is slow? So the way we slowed down. So like behind the curtain, the way we work here is it's it's really uh Per customer basis is where we're at, right? So the way I look at the damage, right? I know I'm reading. I'm I'm translating it for you because I know you and it's sounds like per customer meaning like some guys get a deal and some not. It's down to the repair. Like you less face one for for less. I know that's what she means. I wanted to call it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So right, it's not it's not like you were doing it off. Right. It's so we go back to like sales one oh one, marketing one oh one.
[25:52] PDR College early episodes. We want to come in and we want to anchor high. Right. We want to talk about established value for what's happening. Right, right. Have you talked to the body shop? Have you talked to your insurance company? Um you know, if we're fixing this, it's gonna be $2,800. And then you read it and feel it out, right? So if it's a job that we want. Right, that looks doable. Cause there's some jobs that you just couldn't discount because it's just too impossible to do. Like, there's no. There is no shortcut that I can make this look better and feel good about it. Either all the way or not at all. I want the so I've paid for my location to be here. likely paid for a a Google ad click. to come in here. I pay for Olivia to to create our social posts.
[26:42] pay Shannon to answer the phone. They've got a lot invested in every person that walks through the door. So I want to try to get some money out of their pocket if we can. If there's a way we can do a transaction together. Both people leave happy. Fantastic. We always remember that number gene. That number to get him through the door is a lot higher than most people take the time to calculate. It can literally be $200 spent on marketing to get that person in the door because you get. Leads where is my camera? Yep. Interest Prospects and they're prospects in person, and then it's damage that you can fix, and they're there. That's like you got to get through a lot of layers before you get to this person. One, they're just that far away from being a customer. Yes. So you're. It's real money you have at that point.
[27:32] Unless you're the guy that just spends zero on marketing and you're by yourself and you know you're working out of your garage, like maybe it doesn't cost you anything. But If you're running a marketing budget, that has a comma in it. Yeah. There's probably $50 to $200. Burn by the time that person gets there. Comfortably. So I haven't run the numbers in a long time. Um But it was Mr. Probably, we were in the old shop. So sometime inside of the last eight years. When I tracked the numbers out, we were about $40. to get somebody in the door. About where we were at, like 40 bucks, because I ended up doing a promotion where it was like, here's a $40 coupon. to an email list because I'd rather give it to you than Google. So so the way I'm looking at it from a business owner's side of things, which is not how a technician looks at it.
[28:24] Is I've spent a lot of money to have you walk in the door and to let us look at your car. I want to do business with you. I mean clearly you want to do business with me. So I want to find common ground. We're going to anchor high. We're going to see what's there. If it's a, we're really comfortable doing insurance claims now, right? So if it's an insurance claim, so be it. We'll walk that path. Talking about the discounting. Right if And and you and I know, like all of us knew, most of our audiences know that there are jobs. Like you look at the dent and you're like, man, I can make a lot of moves here pretty quick, right, with the advancements in tools and cold glue. and glue pulling supplies and Lighting, like we can make big moves. If there are things we can do.
[29:13] to make that look a lot better pretty quickly. and the customer's starting to back out. I'm not gonna just let that two hundred dollar cost lead walk out the door. Right. we're going to start to have that conversation on What were you hoping to spend? Right, these are all tricks that you taught me. 15 years ago, Keith, or however long it's been. What were you hoping to spend? What's your budget? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to sell the car? Are you trading it in? Is it a lease? if we're gonna lose the the big sale. And I need to go backwards. And I never go backwards for nothing, right? We're going to do some takeaway. The line I use. Is right, I sort of go old school dent tech when I'm looking at it. Is like, hold on, let me look at this. I need to find what my lowest number is that I can feel good.
[30:07] About Doing work on your car and giving it back to you. And then I tell the bad joke of like, I could tell you 50 bucks, but I'm just going to pull it into the shop and then bring it right back out. And you're going to be like, what did you do? And I'd be like, well, I pulled it into the shop and back out. And that's 50 bucks. Right. And they laugh. And I find that like, so we anchored high. And then I find like what my real baseline number is that I'm going to feel good about doing something to this car. And then we work in between there because ultimately Our job, the skill is 100% labor. Right, how much labor am I going to put? into this. Um One of the things I look at this is typically those make better repairs. The dollars per hour are through the roof.
[30:56] because it's the easy part of the dent. that we're going after first. Generally true. So that's that's kinda that's that's where we come down. I I I would love to get top dollar on every single car. Maybe I'd maybe I need to be better at marketing because I would need a whole lot more leads. to pull that off. Yeah, coincidentally, you know, you and I are big fans of AI and everyone's looking for uh use cases for AI. And Everyone's like, oh, they can answer all my leads. Well, that's a pretty cool idea if you have so many leads that you can't get to them all. Right, right. But that's in my experience, that's generally not the problem that you have. Most of us don't have so many leads. Like the phone won't stop ringing all day, plus emails, plus faxes.
[31:54] Like, it's just not like that. You're going to get 10 to 50 calls in a day. Right. And 50 is a ton. Biggest difference between ten ten and fifty. But it's doable. Totally doable. At that point, if you're like literally dropping balls because you can't get the dents done and answer the calls, yeah, get an AI system, but. Up until that point, talk to these people. Yes. Yeah, you have to, and I love robots. I got 10 robots doing something at any given moment of the day. Right. I'm a big, big, big fan of everything. We could do three shows just on AI stuff. answering your leads. But I don't know if that's the thing. We do in in transparency, we do have a live chat that's answered by a robot. That is fantastic, by the way. We did a little demo. It was awesome.
[32:44] It does just as good as I can do, because you're asked the same 57 questions over and over and over again. And I those I was consistently missing. They come in at random times and a live chat is like, you answer it right now. It's a live chat. Right. So when you're sitting on your phone. Not working, you can get right to it. But if you're working, you miss it. And someone waiting for 30 seconds, it's too long. They just think you're not there. So the robot does a better job for that. Yeah. In today's world, that instant right now is. Where it's at. Side note: we are looking at some voice AI. Four the impatient people of today. when the front desk is on a phone. Or outside with a customer, and somebody like we have people that just call and call and call, and we're like, I'm with a customer. There's no dent that's that big of an emergency, like relax.
[33:37] But that's the point you need them, that they're at the inflection point where they're ready to buy. Exactly. And that's where we're kicking around the AI to help with that. Like, Maybe like Lulu. I would also consider nights and weekends when someone wasn't going to pick up the phone. Sure. Well, I'm interested. But yeah. But to replace, we're not ready to replace that, not by any stretch. I hope you have the problem of 1,000 leads a day when you need the robots, but maybe in Phoenix, right? So far. But that's about it. Yeah, that storm is crazy. So so how do you so I wanna I want to hear your side of this. How do you do your make betters? What's what's your criteria for when you back down? When when do you do that? So it's been a little bit of a challenge to take the technician's view and put it into an estimator.
[34:31] Because it It's easy for you to say, all right, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna use some tension, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. You can kind of envision the repair and you're like, all right, here's what I can do, Bill. But my estimator doesn't have that experience or that x-ray vision. He he can approximate it, but it's not the same. And then he's also committing a technician to do work for less than our pricing. I don't know that I experience the more dollars per hour that you do on Make It Back. Maybe I need to come out and do a class for you. Maybe I have a feeling based on my experience with my technicians that I Just overfix everything. Yeah, well and that's you know, that can be a problem too. Right, so that's where that's where we lean back into. My protractor close? The protractor closes. Yeah. And I use that. I don't use the term, but I use it. I say, you know, if we.
[35:23] Here's what I can promise you on this. If you stand right in front of it, look directly at it, it's going to look amazing. Yep. You're not going to notice anything. It's not until you start going down the sides of the car that you're going to see the additional $2,000 worth of work that we're foregoing. Right. Yes. But I mean, that's one we just did a couple days ago. It was a three thousand dollar quarter panel on a, you know three or four year old accord, right? really feasible. He just bought it, but he's like, Okay, that's you know. I said just like like What I told you, because if I still run the same play. What were you hoping to spend on this? I know you just got it. You're hoping it was perfect, but it wasn't when you picked it up. Now you got this thing. It was a poor previous piece. So that's a big collision that'd be been really chewed up.
[36:16] No broken paint, I was the only saving grace. And he's like, you know, if we could do something at a thousand bucks, I'd jump all over. And the shop was empty that day. So I said, okay, here's what I can do for a thousand bucks. This, this. And he goes, yeah, that's great. Let's do it. I'll drop it off. And then one of my technicians was slow and he came by and he goes, Yeah, I'll do it. Right. But you ended up sinking 10 hours into this thing. That's a long time. That's a super long time for a thousand bucks. It's a loser of a job. But it's better than zero if you're sitting on your hands. Right. But but when you're doing $1,200 cars that are done in two or three hours. This one feels pretty bad. Yeah, that's rough. And And I overfixed it too. You know, he he got it to a respectable state and I'm like, mm.
[37:08] I don't think this is actually what I promised the guy. You can see it looking straight at it. So it needed another hour of work. Right. So so I think I think that kind of stuff s sort of segues us into the other half of this topic, right? that holding what does it look like to hold yourself to the highest standards. As a technician. Which is what it sounds like. you're doing there. Dub. And is it what did you say you had the words for it. Yeah, is it the right I don't remember exactly what I wrote when we were talking about doing the show, but basically, it is holding yourself to the Brice Kelly's of the world to that standard is it is it good practice or it is it a fool's errand? Fool's errand, that's it, yes. Yeah. Meaning, are you just going to Brody's in the middle of the field at midnight trying to get somewhere.
[38:02] Right. Just because you give it all the time you have and then someone pays you every dollar you would ever ask for. That doesn't mean you have an ability you don't have. Right. And I had to learn that the hard way. I thought there was like there was a number that if you paid me, I could fix anything. But that turns out there's some stuff I just don't. possess the skills to fix yet. Yes. Or ever. I don't know. Crazy mangled stuff that I'm trying to turn out like a brand new car. I hold myself to a super high standard. So we had a conversation as a company the other day about this. And It's always been my position that You need to be your own worst critic for your repair. For sure.
[38:52] You should not drink the Kool-Aid that you're good, that this is good, that it looks awesome. You should be thinking about the part of it that doesn't look awesome. A little Itty bitty thing. that no one else sees. but you know it's not think about that. Like, I'm not saying don't be proud of your work. Like, don't be happy that you made somebody happy. But when the lights are off and everyone's gone, you know what part of that you didn't get just perfect. And that's like forget about the fact forget about all the rest that you got perfect. It's irrelevant. Worry about how you're going to fix that next time and how you're not going to make that same mistake. That's how I look at all my repairs. I'm never really quite happy with them. It's like a golf game. Always going to improve and never be perfect.
[39:41] That mindset has made me a really good technician. Really good at what we do. Not the best in the world. Uh but as far as like the people around me, I'm in the conversation. For sure. There's not anybody in town that I, I'm like, gosh, I can't do this. I got to get it over to this guy. I'm that guy. I'm, uh, there's always gonna be somebody better, faster. There are, I can tell you five of them right now. But five out of the globe is pretty good. I'll tell you. Yes. I'm not trying to sound cocky. I'm sure there's 55 guys that are 10 times better than me that I don't know. But. All I'm saying is I hold myself to The highest standard all the time. Most of the clients would be happy at my 95% of the timeline. if I just jumped off and shipped it.
[40:31] Right. That last 5% is not for them. It's for you. They benefit from it, but it's for you. Push yourself to be even better than you were last time. And when you keep doing that year after year after year after year. The hard stuff, what's considered hard for you keeps getting higher and higher and higher in complexity. So now something that was really hard for you before is not hard enough. Pretty easy because you've taken on crazy stuff and you've stayed as long as you could and did everything you could and got creative and customized tools. You did everything you could think of. Two days later, you're like, oh. I should have done this. Yep, been there, done that. Yeah, that but that's the journey of the technician trying to be the best possible technician. And then the money comes later. But as soon as you're too hung up on the money, And you're like, well, I'm off this car because, you know, it is what I promised him and, you know.
[41:30] blah blah blah excuses. but there's still work that you could have done to improve it. I feel like that's when you could start falling off. skills wise. So I'm holding myself to a super high standard. But am I? Am I spinning my wheels? In the middle of the field at midnight, because if I could make everybody, like 99 out of 100 people happy. 70% of the effort. could get a lot done a lot faster. I mean, I see the stuff, Gene, the st you see it too. Pick it. After 30 years, it still impresses me how bad people can be at this. And still be in business. And kill it. Right, absolutely. But At least make some money. I don't know what killing it means, but they can't.
[42:20] They can stay in business ruining cars every single day. Brownina. So it's like Those guys, and they have good reviews that I don't even think are fake half- If those guys can do that. Am I an idiot? for holding myself to this You know, to the Brices and Arlisons of the So so I think I can't pinpoint the the time frame. Right, like it couldn't tell you that it was like, you know, December of twenty nineteen or something like that. For me, in my journey. I spent a long time chasing the craft. Right, as a technician. Um it really is probably Free shop.
[43:07] or around the time we opened the shop, I bet, is when I made this switch. I went from, there's definitely a switch that flipped in my head, where I went from a technician. Chasing my craft. realizing that Business owner. Okay. overhead with employees. with nods to feed. And it became more important. For me. To feed the machine and bring the cars in and make customers happy and get dollars. than it did or then it does. To Be that guy who's only going to work on the car that I'm getting paid to make perfect, that I can work on too until it's perfect. and chase that.
[43:55] I think all technicians need to go through that phase to push themselves as far as possible. Right, and we even see it with like some of these wholesale guys that that only do wholesale and they do amazing wholesale work. And then they're on a retail that needs to be like that needs that extra five percent They don't have it. And they don't have it in the tank because they've never They've never pushed beyond that 95. They think they can. Can't. So for me, there was a definite switch. flipped. took me from you know, like chasing the craft. To be as perfect as I can. And Two. Get as many cars in to make as many dollars as we can. But still do great work. It's not like we're doing substandard work. But I'm no longer hung up on having to do or having to be.
[44:49] Perfect. And dare I even say perfect because like The last time I saw Brice talk, he wouldn't even say perfect, you know, because he understands like. the the definition of of perfect I don't know that it actually exists in our world. Yeah, these cars aren't perfect to start with, which sounds like a cop out, but it's like That's the truth, right? Yeah. Is it as perfect as you can make it? Right. Can it be perceived as perfect? Yes. Yes. perfectly perfectly back to its original state. Right. So I think so I guess my answer to that question would be like you need to push yourself to learn the craft. But if you're going to grow beyond. Just being a technician. You have to be able to flip that switch at some point. If you want to be a Brice.
[45:38] or a sow. or somebody like that that just wants to chase and chase and chase the perfection. Go for it. Much like the DRP versus OE and full price versus not full price. Different Business model, right? It's a different mindset altogether. Yeah, I I think I lean towards the Build it and they will come. Be the best technician that you're capable of being and the money comes. And that's what I tell my guy. That last 5%, always do it. Right. I always do. Right. Because there's nothing bad happens. Only good things happen. You get better, you get more. confident in your repairs, your reputation grows. Yeah, I That extra 30 minutes to two hours that you spend on this, you're going to squander it on Instagram if you don't do it here.
[46:29] Just fix it. Fix it to the best of your ability. So that's still my program. And that's not bad programming, and that's certainly how I teach. But maybe it's not how I operate now. Yeah. You know, every customer you have is different and they're after something different. That, that, that's when it. starts changing when someone tells you that, you know, hey, I know you can do that. That's great. I don't need that here. Right. I have to turn this thing in on a lease or I have to I want to sell it or I'm going to sell it to CarMax and I don't want him to ding me. I already got a quote on it and then my kid hit it with a bike. So I just needed to. Pass the inspection. It just needs to be good enough. Mm-hmm. And you're like, yeah, I can do that for you. And it doesn't need to be $12,000. I can do it for. you know, five, six hundred bucks. Right.
[47:21] And everybody's happy. And I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. too much of that and then you're you never have the skill. It's like a bounce. You have to find that balance. But I but it is I will tell you, I've never been less happy with my repairs, even though I've never been better than I am. Correct. Yeah, I feel that. Because I I see, you know, Brice is getting a lot of airtime in this episode, but I see his videos and I'm like, that's possible. And he just keeps pushing the bar further and further. And I'm grateful for it, but also like, golly, man. Okay, this is, so if I approach this right. This is possible to be flawed. Right. And then I don't get it flawless. Sounds like I'm rolling out a bunch of junk, but people who watch my Instagram know like I'm doing kick-ass work, but I'm looking at that stupid little piece of orange peel that's not where it's supposed to be.
[48:23] All right, that's it. We didn't get it this time. Well listen to me, that's that's you know Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan like. There were a whole bunch of people playing golf with Tiger. There were a whole bunch of the best in the world. That couldn't ever Be as good as Tiger. They would never be as good as Tiger. Yes. Right. There were guys that, if Tiger wasn't playing, they would have been the best in the world. Right. Yeah. And Tiger was, you know, miles ahead of them. Tiger Brice. Michael, you know what I mean? Like it's it's a different it's a different level special dudes. So I'm grateful for like it's for them showing me the way that it's possible and I learn as much as I can from them, but Hey, you know, it can be frustrating to and do this these giant smashes to to perfection take forever. Oh yeah.
[49:14] Yeah, I have this GT3RS in my shop. It's been over two weeks. Part of that's waiting on the insurance company, but the other half is like it's just a mangled car. And it's got to be perfect. And I'm just going super slow. Right. And I'm okay with that. But It's not And that's what I grew up on. Like, if a car was over, if a car stayed with me more than one day, something bad happened. Sure, for sure. We start and stop them on the same day all the time. And I remember people asking me. What do you do on cars that take more than one day? I'm like, God, they don't. None of them do. We just get them, we get it done in one day. Yeah. Day now. I'm like, one day. How can I do it in one day? Can't do it in one day. I need this for a week. To make at least a week. Tired. My arm hurts. I've been going like this in a weird spot for too long. Yeah.
[50:00] Yeah, we're not twenty anymore either, right? Right. So so ultimately I don't think it's a fool's errand to to hold yourself to this high standard because it worst thing that happens is you spend too much time. Right. But really good things can happen too. And when people come out and say, wow, everyone in town said that wasn't possible. You did it, that feels pretty good. Hard to put a dollar value. You start, you know, you walk a little different when people are telling you you're better. your competitors and You get more confident when you go into that next big one for a big number, like, hey, I'm Sorry it's it's such a big number, but this is This thing is wrinkled from top to bottom and we can't just get it. Just what it's gonna take. I you know. probably should put a new bedside on it if you don't care how it looks, man. But you know, back again, back more airtime for Brice Kelly, but that's where Brice hung his hat, right? He had the skills.
[50:54] Right. But he spent the last. 12 years. Still chasing it, and look at the stuff he's fixing today. I bet if we went back on his channel. So like 2016, 10 but 10 years ago. We'd look at those cars and be like, oh, that's not bad. We did three of those last week. Yeah. You know, but 10 years ago, we were like, How did he do that? Oh my god, it's great. How is it possible? Yeah. So it's all just it's just an evolution, I suppose. Yeah. So to bring it back to the original topic, I am. happy to deal on cars and fill up the shop. It just is what it is. It's a sales process. Same, just like selling cars, right? They come in, how much are you asking for this car? It used to be the number wasn't even written down anywhere. It was in a secret code sometimes. Right, right. Right. So, how much are we paying? Well, how much will you pay? That's how much it is.
[51:49] You know, there's a bottom line price and It's up to the business if they want to take a haircut on every job, but just try to get some lubricant flowing through the business. Right. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. Again, I'm also team like we're going to discount it and get it done. However, it I never discount for the sake of discounting. Right, like I'm never gonna say. It's two thousand and they say, Will you fix it for a thousand? and I'll say, Okay. and give them the same product. We're gonna we need to work backwards there. You can't just Do you have some sales tips for somebody that in that scenario? Uh yeah, well so so the first thing is like takeaway. Right, one of my one of my favorite Repairs. It was a Corolla. Deer hit.
[52:37] fender front door or no maybe it was door door. And I go out and I'm working with this guy and diagramming it all out, like going full on, like it's a process. And as I start Working through my sales, you know, as I, as I crested the thousand-dollar mark, you know, like this, this tent here is $450 and this is $250. working through He physically starts to back away from me around that $1200 to $1,500. Like his body length, he's backing up. picked up on the queue and I'm like Hey, what's you know, like, what's going on here? Oh man, this is too much. I really am not, I don't want to do this. I want to spend a thousand bucks and that's it. Okay. Right, and this was like textbook takeaway. So I had it all I literally had it all diagrammed out on the doors. And uh I'm like, okay, let's start with what doesn't bother you.
[53:31] Right. And he's like, Well, this buckle you have circled here, I can't even see it. This little ding, that doesn't bother me. I think that was there before. So we literally start erasing. marks off the panel. So they end up with like relatively a little bit of damage to fix. And he's like, if you can make that look pretty good, I'm gonna be happy. But they was out of there in two hours or two and a half hours. with a thousand bucks. But we just took it away. And I'd let him, he was thrilled to death. And I let him pick what he didn't want to fix. So takeaway is like my favorite. way to start backing down is is is the takeaway. And then of course my protractor close. Like if you're gonna Instead of saying, Wow, how's a 70%? repair. I think I can get this to 92.8%.
[54:21] Wha what's that? Right, the protractor lets you Give a hard, like stand here and it's going to look good, or stand here, stand here, and the further we go around the protractor. more this is gonna cost because it's more labor. I have a spin on your takeaway, a slightly different angle. And that's when you're you know, you have you have modes, I guess, where you're savage mode where you're trying to Flaw for every dollar. And then you have like, semi-retired mode where like you just they breathe on you and you fall over and that's So when you're in savage mode, The takeaway close, the first thing you take away is the one most ugly important dent that there. Yeah. Okay. That's the one that comes off the table first. Oh, that's a good point. Okay, for a thousand bucks, we'll just leave this one alone and we can fix everything else.
[55:16] and or it's the one that you don't want to fix, the hardest one. Right. Which is usually the same dent, but it's not always. It could be like a real sharp, tiny one in the bottom front corner of the door. That you were like, oh, I hate this one. If we can get this one off the table, I'm happy to do it for a thousand bucks. But usually you want to take off the one that they called you about, the reason. I call it the anchor dent. Take that one away. You go, okay, we can hit your price point. We can actually come under it. And we'll just leave this one's the only thing that's going to be left. And you leave them with this quandary. It's like, well. Shoot. Well that's the one I wanted done. Yeah, that's the budget and I we did it. We hit the budget button that but the actual ugliest dent will still be there. Shoot, okay.
[56:05] Sometimes they'll right there, they'll work themselves back up. Well no, I I need it all fixed. And so, what will it be if we just do the whole thing? Well, it's the number we just said, right? Right, right, 20 seconds. Then, you know, sometimes they'll push back and you go, you invert it and say, okay, but then like what you ended up with. At every stop on that train, train track, you might get off and get the sales. Sometimes just taking that anchor dent away and hitting the price point, they talk themselves back into it and you're done and you got it. They kind of like. They kind of get what you're telling them. That's interesting. But if they still push back and say, no, this is the whole, you know, if they're more of like a forward person, they go, no, listen, the whole reason I came was this dent. I don't even care about this other stuff you circled. Okay, well, cool. That's just what you need. Then You're back to your version of the takeaway. Like, perfect. We just do the one you cared about. We can do that even less than a thousand bucks. Yeah. And everybody's happy.
[57:07] I like it, that's a that's a cool little psychological trick. Yeah, taking away the anchor dent first is the most like revealing. to see what their true intention is. Everyone says they have a budget but Nobody has a budget. Budget for accidental car repair. Like they're living their life out of an Excel sheet. Like, oh gosh, accidental car repair. What do we budget for? Let's see. It's 2026, second quarter. Oh, we got $93.14 in your mind for that. You just have a number that you don't want to spend. That's your budget. So your job is just to convince them that they do want to spend it. And then guess what? Surprise they have the budget. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you really do have that budget, you probably shouldn't be worrying about a cosmetic dent on your car. Yeah, I do like handling most of these sales situations with humor. Yeah, I do too. That's my default.
[57:59] It's the most fun. It loosens everybody up. And I like saying the when they're saying, well, what's the least expensive thing I can do? I think, well, least expensive thing you can do is don't fix it at all. That's free. And you can start right now. And I was joking with Liam, telling him, like, you need more jokes. Like this idea that came in before, you should have told him. You know, here's a technique that he's like, I just don't want to see it, but I don't want to spend a lot. And I got out the yellow microfiber rag. I'm like, well, with this technique. where you just put it across your eyes. Uh you won't see it at all, and that's free. I'll just give you the what do we talk? You know, when you rewind stupid jokes like that, it kind of helps them understand what they're saying is pretty unrealistic. Like, yeah, I don't want to spend much and I don't want to see it. But, well. I want a Lamborghini for free too, but like here we are.
[58:51] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But ha having that kind of humor is the best way to build their rapport and kind of set the standard at the same time. But I guess not everybody is comfortable being a jokester. No, it it has to come natural. You can't force that. Like you can't uh You know, studying all my public speaking stuff, they're like, Don't tell a joke if you can't land the joke. Like, if if you wouldn't tell the joke, don't. Don't say it just because. So it has to Like my my protractor close though, but I could tell you fifty bucks, but we're gonna pull it in. Like that's just I just say it, it's me, like it's how I say it and everybody laughs, or almost everybody laughs. They don't laugh, I don't wanna fix their car anyways. And you forget about your damn you don't appreciate good comedy. Exactly. Exactly. Well Keith, we are hard up on this hour and I know you've got to go pick one of your kiddos up. Yep, I'm living the dent lifestyle of maximum availability to the family.
[59:45] Yes, that is a good thing. For sure. It is a it is Over this career I have forgotten How wonderful it is when you're raising a family. to be able to be there for all their stuff. whenever you want. Yes. You're mobile, at least shop different. It's very hard to get out of a shop. You've created your own little zoo there, right? But if you're mobile, I didn't miss anything for any of my kids. I picked him up from school a billion times. I dropped him off for school a billion times. I coached. I did everything. And I didn't I don't know if I appreciated it as much as I do now looking back. Like those are special times when your kids are little. See, I missed out on a lot of that. I tried to work too much. I should have had you coach me earlier and I would have been better off. But so for you young guys that are listening to this, heed Keith's advice. Go do that stuff. You're not listening to me. I was as hungry as anybody too. I wanted all that money, but I just, those little cherubs are only going to be small for a while until they start.
[60:47] Giving you the middle finger to your face. Goes so fast. Catch him before that. Yeah, so fast. So fast. Hey, thanks for doing the show with me. It's cool that it's going to be on yours. So if you're listening on the All Access show, check out the PDR College podcast. It's a show that we've been doing for 10 plus years. And if you're listening on the PDR College podcast, check out Gene's All Access podcast. Where do you like to send people for that, Gene? I've been sending people to Spotify because I feel like it's the easiest listening experience. So for me, I'm an Apple Podcasts guy. So Apple Podcasts, and of course, our YouTube because we do video. So YouTube video or YouTube, our YouTube channel at Dent Repair Now. Gets you there. And uh awesome. Yeah. We didn't get a chance to do it today. But for some of you old school listeners on the PDR College podcast side of things. replaying some of the old PDR marketing minute episodes. So We're up to is it a literal two-minute show? It is a literal two minutes. You want to do it? Let's play it. All right, here we go. All right.
[61:44] Episode 13 of the PDR Marketing Minute coming at you. We're going to critique this when we're done. It's time for the PDR Marketing Minute, your weekly quick tip to help you build your PDR business. Hey, welcome back. Episode 13 of the PDR Marketing Minute. I'm your host, Gene Fetty. Today I'm going to start prepping everybody to dive a little bit deeper into marketing. Up until now, all of our shows have really been helping you lay a foundation and Just get a good start. Your marketing. We need to dive deeper and dig in and drive more leads. Some of the information we need to know is going to let us know what we can do and spend to bring those leads in.
[62:36] So my homework assignment for you this week. is to find out what your average retail customer is worth. Uh I would look look at it two ways. Either if we were talking about retail hail break that down into a separate column. over a retail uh you know large down or door ding customer. You need to know those numbers. Knowing those numbers is going to help you know what you can invest. to bring more clients into your And do your sales funnel or into your into your business. For example, I happen to know that my average retail ticket comes in right at about $300. $297 to $299, I think, is about where my average is. What that lets me know is what each potential phone call coming in is worth.
[63:28] And also with my advertising dollars. What kind of dollars can I spend to bring a lead in? At $300 a lead, I can spend a decent amount of money to bring those leads to me and still turn a great profit. That's your homework for the week. Next week we'll dive deeper on another subject. Alright so still Solid advice, I think. Right? You still got to know those numbers. You used to know mine. I was just trying to see if I could pull mine up in MTRX, and there's not a good button. Yeah, no, you need to put it in the spreadsheet on the back end. But solid advice. You got to know what your customers are worth in order to know how you can chase them. I know mine used to be just under $400. Yeah. We used to do this kind of work a lot more. You think as my business got bigger, I should do it more. Right. It gets more complex. Yeah, for sure. But isn't it important to know because is this an average job? Is it an above average job? Can I spend more on marketing? Can I do, do I need to cut back? Do we need to raise my price is based on what I'm spending? Yeah.
[64:30] And it's pretty simple math, right? You just look at how many jobs you had, how much did you bill, average it out. Not that tough. Do you know yours right now? No, I don't. I the last time we were ran it, we were over a thousand. was our average through the door for the year. You know, like we looked at it at the end of the year. So we were on a plus a thousand, so that's solid. Great advice. I will remind everyone at this point that on pdrcollege.com, we have an ability for you to leave a voicemail. Click a little button there and you can just speak right into your phone or computer, leave us a message. And if you want to ask a question or talk about what your average is, and if it's a cool comment, we'll bring it on the show. I've been stacking up these. I've got 15 or 20 of them, and we're going to pick some of the best ones and do some shows around them. And if we use your recording, we send you free Black Plague tabs. So, those of you who have sent recordings in, I have not blown you off. I'm stacking them up so we can do a cool multi-show have to go do one of those because I made a couple.
[65:30] guest appearances on the show back in the day with that. So yeah, I love it. Well, hey, we're quick time. Thanks for the Black Plague hat in the back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's up there somewhere. Oh, hey, Keith, thanks for the sign. Keith sent that. Dent Repair Now sign to us. That is so cool, dude. Really, really appreciate it. I love it too. A little glow up to the background. Yep. But hey, I've got a low battery light blinking on here. You got to go. So let's hit this outro and uh. Thanks again for doing this. This is great. Until next time, hold on. Get better. Thanks for hanging out with us, everybody. It's been a fun show to do. We hope to see you in the weeks and weeks to come, and maybe at the end. Mobile Tech Expo in Florida. They'll be here before we know it. Not too late.
[66:18] happens. All right, Gino, have a good one. All right, you too, Keith. See you, brother.
